I have been thinking about the Irish educational system and in particular the leaving certificate. The figures came out last week and it seems that 70% of our students are getting private education as well as public education. This means that in the evenings and weekends, 70% of the students are going to private tutors (usually 3rd level students or perhaps teachers) or to the numerous ‘grind’ schools that have become such a lucrative business around the country.
It is in many ways, something like having the olympic games with 70% of the athletes being on the juice.
There is a debate about whether or not going to private tuition is really a help. The results from the private schools are usually fairly in line with the results from the public schools. Does this mean that the private schools are not doing a great job then? Well, perhaps they are. Perhaps the avarage student that goes to a private school is a little less clever than the average student that does not. If that was the case, then the private schools really do a good job of preparing the students for the leaving certificate. I’m not aware of any study of the added value that a grind school will offer.
The grind schools will annually trot out a student that has gotten maximum points in their leaving cert and the media will pick up on it and this will swell the ranks of the student body in that school for next year.
However, I think that this is analogous to an olympics where the runners are on drugs. The grades that the students get are above their ‘natural’ ability. A comparison of a cohort of students that come from grind schools and get 500 points and a cohort that got these points on their own through the public school system would be a useful study. My bet (and this is from some experience) is that the student that got these points through the public school system will be a better student in the long run. My feeling is based on anecdotal evidence.
This was a mature student that went back to school after 13 years in industry. He was very serious about school and spent two years going to an expensive grind school just south of the canal in Dublin 4. He got just under 500 points, which is a better score than 90% of leaving certificate students. He was completely swamped in 1st year maths in Maynooth and dropped out at christmas and was completely crushed as a result. In the grind school he told me that they only studied the exam papers. They predicted questions and indeed, they seem to have been able to predict them with great accuracy. He was only given tips on exam cleverness and at no point in science classes did they give the students any perspective outside of the exam papers. Consequently, after a few weeks in Maynooth, he knew that he didn’t have the kind of knowledge that his classmates had. He only knew how to guess exam questions and in the absence of a grind school to help him along, he couldn’t cope.
He was quite bitter about his grind school experience and how poorly he was prepared for life in third level and how bad his habits were when it came to exams. He tried to predict hisfirst term exam questions and got it all wrong. That was it, then - education over!
I don’t think it is right for us to tell parents that they shouldn’t send their children to grind schools. Their children need to compete for college places wit the other children. Naturally, of the 30% of students that do not get private tuition, almost 100% of them will be from lower socio-economic groups, so they can just kiss college goodbye anyway.
I do feel that as educators, we need to say these things out loud: “Your child might not be able for all this education in the long run”. “This might not be the best way to make your child happy”. “Your child might end up in a high-points course and they might take it simply for that reason and it might not be the right course for them”.
Last comment: I’m soooooo glad I’m not back doing the leaving cert.
Comments particularly welcome on this one.
5 users commented in " The Leaving Cert: Like the Olympics where everybody is on drugs? "
Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackI see your point here Doc, although I’m not familiar with the current format of secondary education.
I think it depends on the student’s reason for attending private tuition - it may simply be to pass a certain weak subject which they won’t choose as a degree subject.
I see your point Sheepie and indeed, this kind of leg-up is probably fine, in particular if you have specific questions about parts of the course and you probably need somebody to help out. Also, subjects like Irish where the parents might not have a clue can be good subjects for tutorials. However, getting a souped-up year of nothing but intense exam grooming is not the best for the students in the long run.
Its been 13 years since I finished school but even then I went to a grind school for maths. In the space of two months, one class a week, I went from failing my mock exams to getting a B1 in my leaving cert. Enough to get into science and on with the rest of my life.
My analogy would be different. That some athletes have trainers that cant teach you how to run and if you pay a little extra for a trainer that everone knows is good you’ll be trained to run in the right direction.
Grind schools pay teachers a fortune but require evidence of excellent student performance in exams. No public school can pay that kind of salary, and maybe not even the private schools.
Its definitely not fair but it was money well spent. Im not saying this trying to bait you. Just wishing that teaching was better paid in general to raise standards all round and not leave the best education to the richest.
Madnessburgers: I’m afraid that grind school teachers are paid less on average than teachers in public schools and in general they don’t get paid for summers.
For sure, there are crap teachers and lecturers (I hope I am not one) and this is really the best use of grind system - to make up for a teacher that is failing their students. However, for some people the results they get from grind schools are unsustainable when they are left to fend for themselves.
my daughter went to a prestigious girls school in dublin for 11 years. some of her teachers were tired same old teaching some thirty years. she did pretty good in her junior certificate thanks to weekend courses at a grind school. but insisted on going to a grind school near the green for fifth and sixth year. she loved it she got into medical school and is now a doctor. she knows that it is a dog eat world out there and is always praising the grind school teachers who were enthusiastic and her life would not be in medicine today if she didn’t go. she knows she wouldn’t have gotten the points, would have to repeat her leaving certificate and would not have liked that and have picked another course. i think the problem here is the points. I believe that an individual assessment test would be better to get into the course of your choice. high points dont make good doctors. She had to work very hard and sacrifice alot to get into medical school. it is such a shame that so many caring wonderful people who dont necessarily do well academically on the day are being lost to the system and would make wonderful medical people. it is the education system that makes children and parents send kids to grind schools.